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Kevin Cramer: Same-Sex Marriage = More Crime PDF Print E-mail
Written by Chet   
Monday, 19 December 2011 10:30

We haven't seen any mainstream media covering any of the more interesting and/or ridiculous things said by the Republican candidates for the open U.S. House seat during last week's NDGOP debate in Valley City. Coverage of the debate, like most of North Dakota's media coverage, has been lacking. I gotta admit I haven't watched the whole debate yet, but I have had some folks point out some of the more interesting things said during the debate. One is Kevin Cramer's suggestion that same sex marriage causes an increase in crime.  Here's how the exchange went:

Questioner:  Kevin, I know you said before that you don't like the word "incentives," but that's the word that was used here with some of these questions.  So along those same lines, as far as a marriage between one man and one woman, would you also support measures to incentivize marriage, and what kind of measures would you propose?

Kevin Cramer: Well I wouldn't punish it. That's the first thing you'd do is not... See, again, I hate incentives because incentives somehow imply that the government is going to impose some value on what you are doing and I've never seen the government impose much value on anybody.  So we could certainly not punish it to begin with.  Listen, it doesn't take... Even an atheist can look around our society today and see that there has been a degradation of our culture.  Anybody can see that crime is going up in our culture... that the breakup of the family has had a consequence. You may have a sort of a liberal heart about some things, but the reality is that there are real consequences to children being raised in something different than a traditional family with a mother and a father who love each other and are committed to each other for life. 

Video Clip Here (starting at about 29:30) [Cramer's supporters have  apparently pulled the video clip; you'll have to use the following audio clip...]

Am I misreading that? To me, it's pretty clear Kevin Cramer is saying when government stops banning same sex marriage, crime goes up. That's really intriguing. Because if that's true, then we ought to be able to see an obvious uptick in crime in Iowa starting on about April 3, 2009. (Reality is, the crime index went down in Iowa between 2009 and 2010. Uh oh, Kevin; maybe getting the government out of the business of banning marriage for some makes the crime rate decrease! <GASP!>)  

And if Cramer is right, we'd also really want to take a hard look at what's going on in Western North Dakota with the massive uptick in crime in the Bakken region. Because there has been a HUGE uptick in crime out there. Maybe someone needs to investigate whether there are secret same-sex marriage ceremonies out there. Maybe a lot of the oilfield workers are coming to North Dakota from Iowa or other places that do not put a value on non-same-sex marriages while diminishing the value -- even making up false claims about the impact -- of same-sex marriages. 

If that's the case, I want to know about it.  


Comments (8)add comment

The Other Chet said:

The video
The debate video clip was online until I posted this blog post and then mysteriously was pulled. If you want to watch the debates, you can still do so by clicking here. I don't have time right now to figure out which clip its in, or at what clock-tick mark. If someone else can find it and post a comment here, please do so. Thanks.

I'm also using this as an opportunity to test the commenting feature of the blog. Someone told me they're having trouble posting comments. If this is posted, then I'm not having any trouble. If I can't recreate the problem(s) others are having, I won't be able to fix them, unfortunately. Apologies...
 
December 19, 2011
Votes: +1

nimrod said:

...
Thank goodness for Cramer. He will focus our attention on social issues like gay marriage and abortion so that the oil and coal billionaires can plunder ND and turn the Badlands into a frakking wastewater pit, while everyone is looking in the other direction.
 
December 19, 2011
Votes: +1

wj said:

Your misreading it
He didn't say anything about legalizing or banning same-sex marriage. He said:
(1) Breakdown of families has had social consequences, including crime. Just about every social scientist would agree with that, but even if you don't, it is different than saying something about same-sex marriage.
(2) There are "real consequences to children being raised in something different than a traditional family with a mother and a father who love each other and are committed to each other for life." Well, the data support that as well. But, again, even if you disagree with the data he did not say anything about same-sex marriage leading to more crime.

Lastly, even if you interpret what he said as saying that SSM leads to more crime, citing Iowa or any other place where SSM is legal would not disprove that position since not even opponents of same-sex marriage contend that there would be a direct causation. What they claim is that legalization of SSM would, after several generations, lead to a diminution of "traditional" marriage in society and the law and that would, in time, have negative social consequences.

Cramer may think that legalizing SSM would immediately lead to an increase in crime, but he did not say it here.
 
December 19, 2011
Votes: -1

nimrod said:

...
In whose world and in whose history did the idealized "traditional family" actually exist as a societal norm? The "traditional family" is a WASPy social conservative buzzword selling the myth that everyone (or at least respectable white folks) lived like the 1950s TV Cleaver family from the time the Pilgrims landed until the hippies ruined the USA in the 1960s. Dream on, dude.
 
December 19, 2011
Votes: +0

Chet said:

to wj
WJ: I would invite you to go watch the video clip. He is asked a question about "marriage between one man and one woman." He was answering a question about "marriage between one man and one woman." Just as everybody knows that "states rights" to post-civil-war southern states was (and to many racists today still is) code for "pro-slavery" and/or "pro-segregation," "marriage between one man and one woman" is code for "marriage ONLY for one man and one woman."

I will give you this: Cramer is completely incompetent at answering a simple question without going off on some tangent relating to one of his "WASPy social conservative buzzword" (thanks nimrod) talking points. In this answer, where he's asked only about incentivizing "marriage between one man and one woman," he ends his rambling sentence talking right-wing anti-women's choice code, re: "the sanctity of life." If you're trying to tell me that Cramer failed to give a coherent answer to a fairly simple question, I'll give you that. If, on the other hand, you're trying to tell me he wasn't saying SMS leads to an elevated crime rate, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Respectfully.
 
December 19, 2011
Votes: +1

jjtsfca said:

...
Just another homophobe doing a barely adequate job of concealing his complete distaste for gay and lesbian people and their civil rights. You can parse it all you want, but the intention is obvious.
 
December 19, 2011
Votes: +1

wj said:

...
Well, the video makes my point. The previous question was about a federal marriage amendment, limiting marriage to one man and one woman. The next question was "along those lines" and used a prepared question about incentives for that marriage. You are right, he was asked only about incentivizing that marriage.

Indeed, all of the candidates took the same position, claiming not just that marriage should be limited to one man and one woman, but that that institution was important to society. Cramer was just more sloppy in doing it.
 
December 20, 2011
Votes: +0

big jake said:

...
Nimrod, please help me here. I'm a 60's guy. Are you telling me that we did not wreck America? Wait a minute. Can't we get credit for anything?

I have an idea for most of us. If you haven't already seen the movie "the help", please do. Next, forget black and south. Next, think about the culture as it has evolved in Bismarck. I'll wait to here you take on this.

In my opinion, locally and well as nationally, we are deeply expanding the divisions. It is the economic lines that are the common denominator here. The growing gap in income is as bad here as it is anywhere. It is not a result of not enough education, or skills or work ethics. It is a result policy. Not as easy to discern but it is the virus that is having such negative impacts on ou nation. It is unhealthy and unsustainable. We must do better.
 
December 21, 2011
Votes: +0

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